Yue Luping: I’d like you to talk about this piece.

Lennie Lee: The idea I had in London. One day I was walking along the street, at a bus stop, I suddenly thought that I’d offer somebody 20 pence. Because in London 20 pence is not much money to beggars in these days, and nobody wanted it. So I tired to off them 50 pence. Then I tried to off 1 pound, then 5 pound, 10 pound eventually 20 pound, nobody would take it. So suddenly I thought what if I did it in China, so in China, it was much harder and people see me as a white man and they have views about me who’s angry and hostile. So the first thing I wanted to do was to show that people find it is very difficult just to go “Ok, that’s a good idea, oh, that’s funny”. The second thing I wanted to do was find out what would happen, how many people would pass before someone would that it. What I didn’t expect is this level of anger, and this is very interesting because it shows a lot of anger towards the West. What is also interesting is that it brings people together to argue about money, about the value of money and about performance.

Yue Luping: Had you paid attention to relation between China and UK, between developing countries and developed ones?

Lonnie Lee:  I think that’s a feeling in the UK of fear of any country out of Europe, you know especially big countries like Russia, America, China, and I think it’s only by traveling by working together with people that you get to understand their cultures in their ways, and you become tolerant. And the area where I live is very tolerant area. I know people who are Chinese, people who are Turkish and I know people who are from Africa, from the Caribeen and people from everywhere, from Germany too. And the point is that for me it’s very normal to be in a cosmopolitan area and I would not feel this black, white, red, yellow, pink racism.

Yue Luping: You have no sense of racism?

Lennie Lee: No I don’t have sense of racism.

Yue Luping: You just want to discuss about money?

Lennie Lee: Originally my idea was to discuss money not races. But I discovered from that race was powerful and there was something also I feel looking at the festival. There was a sense that people were very happen for people from the West to come along. But there was also a lot of concentration on Chinese nationality, and I do not think that’s good. That’s a personal thing. That’s how I feel.

Yue Luping: But in fact Chinese people paid more attention to race, to the relationship between to races, to the relationship between two nations, because people have the idea that white men symbolize power, money and modernization. The people in street were angry because you offend Chinese dignity.

Lennie Lee: But this is it. In Europe, I like to provoke people according to their tuboo. I did this in Germany, in Sweden, in Britain, now I do it in China, and it’s fair.

Yue Luping: I’m sorry that the tape is running out------Just now you said you did this work in other counties.

Lennie Lee: To be honest with you, this work was very improvised. It’s just a feeling sense of what happens if I do this. Now I have tothink about the idea, but I know I did something good, because I know I made people angry, and if they become angry or laugh or feel sad I’ve done something, it’s not a question whether this is successful. This was designed to provoke and it succeeded in its term. I don’t really know what to say it’s not such a deep conceptual thing, it’s just an instinct, instinct is what it’s about, it’s an instinct of feeling, what happens if I do this.

Yue Luping: I’d like to hear Christina’s opinion about this.

Christiane Kouig: I didn’t like it, because why to provoke people when they’re in such a mess, when they’re such a pain in a way and I don’t why to provoke this pain. So I don’t know what to say, it’s just, also a very instinct feel I have about this(work). When I saw this moman with this strong face and this anger you see that the people here, their life is very difficult, you presented that you were like somebody from the West exactly doing what they pretend that Western countries would do with them. So I don’t know the sense of it.

Lennie Lee: I answer your question.

Christiane Kouig: I’m not the person who would like something that would provoke not have something behind.

Lennie Lee: There is a provocation and there is something behind because at the end of the day somebody could taken the money and gone thank you, it would be a thinking person’s action to go: “Ok, when you to give away your money, fine, I’ll take it, I accept your offer.”

Christiane Kouig: And they don’t want to take something from the West, that’s the point.

Lennie Lee: Then in that case, Ok, I discovered something about China, about the way people feel.

Christiane Kouig: But you can also do it in another way.

Lennie Lee: No, I brought this to the open by provoking and it’s only by provoking that you bring deep seeded feelings and emotions to the open. And that is what it’s all about it, and that is the success of it, and the fact that everybody went bababa …… Is in fact the success. I’m sorry and that is what it’s about, and if you say that provocation is not good, I’m saying……

Christiane Kouig: No, no, no I didn’t say that provocation is not good, I’m also somebody who likes provocation, but not without a sentence behind.

Lennie Lee: No, there is a sentence, because it’s about tolerance, and people here are intolerant. No I disagree with you. If you bring out that intolerance, then at least you reveal the intolerant that exists. By revealing intolerant you can destroy it before it becomes powerful enough to be violent, and that is why I totally disagree with you 100%, and I’ll never agree with you. I can tell you that I’ve done this in other countries and the results are more tolerant, so I don’t agree with you. You are wrong.

Christiane Kouig: I think in European countries, it’s much different than in here. I think the point is that you did it in here China, in an undeveloped country.

Lennie Lee: I think the fact is that you see it in terms of China as a undeveloped country, is implicit racism on your part, and that you should consider your own thoughts you do not live in a multi-cultural society like I do, you’re thinking straight if you think life that.

Christiane Kouig: I don’t agree with you because I was saw money many times in other countries.

Lennie Lee: But I live with people of other countries, all day, every day.

Christiane Kouig: Oh, oh, oh……

Lennie Lee: I go to foreign restaurant, I go to Chinese restaurant, I have Turkish friends, I have black friends, African friends.

Christiane Kouig: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah……

Lennie Lee: And I really live with them, you know, and I don’t agree with you because I think for you to see that Germany is somehow developed and China is undeveloped is actually that yourself is not right.

Christiane Kouig: No, no, no, you turn my words you turn my words.

Lennie Lee: And that’s how I see it, your point.

Christiane Kouig: No, no, no, you turn my words. I don’t want to talk about it any more.

Lennie Lee: I don’t see this is an undeveloped country. I see this is a develo……I see this is a country that is developing faster than Europe and more successful than Europe in many ways.

Christiane Kouig: You turn my point, you turn absolutely my point of words.

Lennie Lee: I don’t know.

Christiane Kouig: My English is not good enough to really go into the details, really in the very detailed things. I think it’s a very detailed thing.

Lennie Lee: I think we have a very different belief on how art can be effective.

Christiane Kouig: Yes.

Lennie Lee: I feel very strongly that provocation and bring out feelings is good.

Christiane Kouig: And that’s your way you do it, and you did it and I just said what thought about it.

Lennie Lee: And you disagree , and we both disagree with each other.

Yeah, we both disagree.

Christiane Kouig: Yeah.

Lennie Lee: Yeah.