现实主义的浪漫——李威访谈
时间：2006年3月26日
地点：沈阳南湖小学一年二班教室
付晓东（以下简称“付”）：我们的展览题目叫做《上房抽梯》，针对画面而言是指方法论上的心理悬疑的设置。
李威（以下简称“李”）：现在有很多人画画都是按照符号化去做。你们的题目本身就和符号有点距离，属于一个内容。这边，至少你们选的这几个人，他们也不是符号化的。过去很多展览都是图像式的，停留在符号的层面上，没进到内容，都挺单一。
付：你有几个转折阶段，从凡高到《一个艺术爱好者的死亡》，再到《V先生的现实生活》，到现在的车祸，有着很大的变化，谈一下你这几年的创作过程。
李：画凡高时，想好好画画，崇拜凡高，要当他那样的艺术家。特别贴切的就是和凡高在一起，也有些说不清楚，都是情绪决定的。那时的作品比较符号化，想找一个和大家不一样的方式，主要是情绪上的一种宣泄。后来《V先生的现实生活》，是以我为圆心在画圆。虽然已经逐渐把现实加到画里，但现实并不舒服。在沈阳的那几年是很苦的，人家并不喜欢你的画。有同事问我：“你平时都干吗啊？”我说：“画画”。问：“那你的画卖吗？”我说：“不卖。”人说：“那你画它干吗啊？”后来，逐渐就把人称引到第三人称上去了，把我放到画面之外，更多的是看事物时，面对自我的情绪。
孙宁（以下简称“孙”）：之前你是画自己的，是不是也把自己的内心完全呈现了呢？你怎么去转变到目前的这个状态？
李：不完全呈现。影片就是导演自己，只是他没参与进去，但角色都是他。以前都是别人教我生活上的规范，比如说画画应该是怎么样的，没想过我是不是喜欢。大家都说害怕结婚，可到底害怕什么呢？结了，也没觉得怎么样。反而生活的角度更多了。后来我发现我特别爱做饭。其实就是要找到自己喜欢干的事儿。现在是长大了，虽然还不是完全知道自己要的是什么，但我不适合什么我知道。那时候特别在意自己的感受，老把自己当回事，当画到一个《艺术爱好者的死亡》时那些就结束了，我觉得我也死了。现在差了许多，也俗了许多。
弄一个形像然后无限复制，让人有点烦了。这边本来就不太流行，离主流的艺术圈比较远。技术决定了画面的最主要的因素。我从电影里得到一些启发。有几个人是真的去看镜头？都是看故事。包括连续剧，画也是一样，给它一个内容比较好。我现在的画，都是故事性的，包括我起的画的名字。
孙：你画的题目对解读你的作品还是有帮助的，其实是你作品的一部分？
李：是的，有时候想题目挺难的。比如 “你爸是全世界最坏的男人”，一个中年妇女坐在街角搂着她的孩子，好象在说话，“你爸是全世界最坏的男人”。一旦婚姻遇到问题，女人肯定要拉个人站在她这边。其实这个男的肯定不是全世界最坏的人，但她就是要这样告诉孩子。也许只有中国人才会明白。
付：你的油画好像八十年代的老电影，尤其像加了滤光镜后拍的夜景。
李：我现在画的挺古典。古典肖像都是暗背景，含在里面，人是亮的，象伦勃郎。只不过不能完全照搬他们画的样子去做。我下阶段准备画些鱼，象国画小品，随便画条鱼，画个花，画个虫子，如果说中国情调就太恶心了，只做中国符号就太简单了。中国人的心态和外国人的心态上不同，观察角度不一样，有中国味道在里面。
付：看来分配在国画系还是有好处的，其实你很多作品意像的表现性也是很强的。
李：当然还是要画得好一点。象希区柯克的电影总是有一个伏笔，在阐述剧情前，他总是要把周围的情节铺垫一下，只有看到最后才能表达出来。线放的很长，非常能吸引人看下去，如果切下中间一部分就挺有意思。我在画里设想的比较多，有点像下棋，过了很久，才发现趣味在儿这。卓别林的电影，角色、动作都特别象画，比后来的电影有味道。大家利用纯粹的二维平面的材质比较多，电影是有厚度的，但很少有人利用这个元素。
孙：你的画面是想表现的这个厚度如何解释？
李：有一首歌叫“丁香花”，所有的经历都压缩在歌词里，可能并没有说什么，直到以后，你才知道这个事。我给《后巷》设计的剧情是，人在胡同里走，突然后面来人一下把他打倒了，他刚要起来去追。画面设计的是不安全，正常人的心理，哪里觉得不安全，走的时候都有点战战兢兢的。
孙：你经常在画的时候自己给自己设计情节吗？就是一个版本还是各有不同？
付：记得哲学电影《蝴蝶效应》里也有类似的情节，人的命运被几个关键性的瞬间决定。
李：基本上是几个版本，象决定性的瞬间。摄影还停留在趣味上，比如布勒松的一个帘子的流苏正好挡在一个男人的前面。我觉得画的趣味性少了，内容性多了，是人的情绪变化造成的。有的版本，可能不想画了，但过些日子，又觉得可以画。“楼梯”和“后巷”是属于同样的感受，或多或少都感到不太安全。胡同、楼道，走起来森的慌，看到就觉得楼道里有声音。“楼梯”在很多电影里都用来做过场，声音或者空荡的空间，不一定真有危险，就是个情绪。大白天没感觉，夜晚含量大，容易让人有想法，有期待，能营造剧情。我一点都不期待别人看我的画觉得好不好，但如果有人觉得不安全，就非常精彩了。其实，这就是个心理游戏。
孙：你用平面的语言把厚重的内容压到一个瞬间性的画面里的。为什么要用油画语言做媒介？
李：因为是学油画的。当影象非常流行的时候，我也想过去拍DV，但后来发现自己无法驾驭动态的东西，不知道好坏，没有判断标准。拍照片还行，是因为多年看摄影家的作品积累得来的观察方法。甚至换丙稀也不行，只有油画才最适合我。就像我可以去品尝各种菜系，但只有东北菜才能让我吃饱吃得最香。
付：你如何看待现在经常被提出的六十年代的理想、七十年代的残酷、八零后的卡通？
李：年代是有共性的。有些七十年代的人心态是八十年代的，是很下意识的。有些六十年代的人的观察角度其实非常超前。刻意去划分年龄段是没必要的，可以淡化这个东西。
对于那些画卡通的，我觉得中国人一点都不卡通，日本人才有卡通心态。中国人都是非常现实的，即便有浪漫也是以现实为前提，是现实主义的浪漫，这是中国的民族性。对你认为很有趣的一种情景，做些删减，对构成少经营些，更多的是经营情趣。“V先生的现实生活”是有点消极和伤害，爬在那里在被人抽打，现在淡化伤害的感受。这个和年龄有关，生活中很常见，心理有了变化。被人刺激一下，会有不舒服的感觉，但不会象以前那样反映激烈。两个人谈到“你心里有鬼”时，其实是有敌意的，不一定是仇恨，但肯定会伤害到对方，假如其中一个人不回避的话，就有可能升级动手了。以前特别愿意发泄，现在其实比发泄更难受，表面上还要做出很平静的样子。
画画的一般都是理想主义者，当想表达的东西没表现出来，理想没达到，过程中一直都会不舒服。画“V先生”前是我画的最痛快的时候。有干扰，心里会不舒服，但这种不舒服又能被调整回来一点儿。
孙：你觉得东北艺术家有什么特点？
李：我觉得东北人比较爷们儿，是交流方式。东北人一说话就能感觉出来。其实东北这些画画的都不容易，相对比较底层一点，没多少钱。他们和平常人的生活最贴近，他们都很真实，你还是能从作品里感受到他喜欢的东西。
REALISTIC ROMANCE – THE INTERVIEW OF LIWEI
26TH MARCH，2006
PLACE：THE 2ND CLASSROOM
FIRST GRADE，
NANHU PRIMARY SCHOOL
SHENYANG
Fu Xiaodong (hereafter refers to ‘Fu’): The topic of our exhibition is called ‘Climb up a Building, Remove Ladder’, which means, in methodology, in view of the general appearance of a painting is set up as a psychological fantasy.
Li Wei (hereafter refers to ‘Li’): Nowadays, there are many people symbolizing their paintings. The topic of this exhibition you have named is bit away from the symbol. It is more like what it is content. Or, at least, these artists who are chosen in this exhibition don’t do symbolic paint. In the past, quite a lot shows were image-like, remaining on the surface of symbols. Not yet probe deeply into the essence of content. All are unitary.
Fu: There are several turning points in your art creation, like from Van Gogh to ‘The Death of an Art-Lover’, to ‘The Real life of Mr. V’, and to the traffic accident at present. They gradually have changed a lot. Would you please tell us about your process of art creation over last few years?
Li: At that time, when I drew Van Gogh I simply hoped that I would be an artist as same as he was and to be with him spiritually. Somehow I can not describe it clearly at that stage of my mood. My works by that time were more symbolic. I was trying to find a way different to others, and mainly to unbosom my feelings. ‘The Real Life of Mr. V’ was also painted in taking myself as the center of a circle. Although I gradually paint more realistic, the reality wasn’t comfortable. It was tough time in Shenyang by then. People didn’t like my works. My colleague used to ask me: “What do you do at leisure?” answered I: “drawing.” One asked again: “do you sell them at all?” I said: “No.” surprising sound: “then why did you do it?”……after some time, I drew as though I was a third person whom standing there watching. So I am able to face a bit closer to my own feelings.
Sun (hereafter refers to ‘Sun’): Did you present your innermost world completely when you were drawing yourself? How do you transform it into present?
Li: I presented incompletely. This is a bit like movie director. The film resemble to the director himself. Only does he not take part in acting, but all roles are his. I used to be taught how to draw in standard and never occurred to me that if I myself like it or not. One instance out of many is everyone says that they are afraid of marriage, but no one knows exactly what to be afraid of. Then I married. What I have found through marriage is it shows me more of life and it also happens to me that I fancy cooking. Taken altogether is we need to find what we like the most to do in our lives. As long as I grow up, I know exactly what is suitable for me even though I haven’t precisely found what I want the most in my life. All that time I cared too much about my own feelings and took myself too seriously. And all ended up while painting The Death of an Art-Lover. It seemed I died too by then.
Now I am a bit bored with making an image to duplicate infinitely. It is not so popular here as we are far from the mainstream of arts community. Artistry is the matter of primary factor. This is what I have learned from movies. How many of us pay more attention to the frames which’s including TV series and paintings? As a matter of fact, Most of us just watch the interesting plot. It would be better to give it some contents. What I have painted now have more interesting plot as same as the way I have named them.
Sun: The title of your painting can help people to comprehend your work so as to be a part of it?
Li: Yes, it is. It can be difficult to figure out a name though sometimes. For instance, Your Father is the Worst Man in the World, there’s a middle-aged woman sitting around the corner with her son in her arms and resembling to tell him that his father is the worst man in the world. Women have the tendency to convince someone by her side while the marriage encounters some difficulties. The man actually isn’t the worst person in the world, but she just wants to say so. Perhaps only the Chinese can understand this social phenomenon.
Fu: Your oil paintings resemble the old movies from 80’s. Especially look like the night scenes that taken with filter.
Li: I now draw quite classically I think. The classical portrait all paint in the dark background and figures are bright, like Rembrandt. But it doesn’t mean that we can copy indiscriminately the appearance of them. I’m preparing to draw some fishes the next, more like traditional Chinese painting sketch. I will draw randomly either a fish, or a flower, or even little insect. I would be uncomfortable if it was called sentiment of China. Neither called it symbol of China. There are differences between Chinese and foreigner in the point of view and the way of observing.
Fu: looks like there are advantages of being a teacher in the Traditional Chinese Painting Department. Actually many of your works has strong imagery expression.
Li: Certainly one must draw better in the first place. It is like that there is always a hint in Hitchcock’s movies. He tries to foreshadow environment before elaborating plot. And that is why all his movies can catch your eyes to the end. It would be interesting if cut part of it to paint. I conceive quite a lot in my paintings, a bit like playing chess. You will find the interesting part later on. I think that the roles and actions in Chaplin’s movies are as same as paintings. It makes you ruminate it over. Everybody uses more two-dimensional materials than others. Movies can narrate in depth. But very few painters use this element in their paintings.
Sun: Would you please explain how you try to express the depth in your paintings?
Li: there is a song called the Lilac, in which lyric compressed all experiences of the singer. It might not be saying anything exactly until you have listened it all. I made the plot for the Back Lane is one was beaten up while walking along the lane and he was trying to get up and to catch that guy. It was designed as unsafe so that one would be walking with fear and trepidation. Psychologically it is rather normal feeling.
Sun: Do you often assume the plot while painting? Only one kind or you have several different scenes in your mind?
Fu: it seems that there’s similar frame in this philosophy movie called Butterfly Effect. Man’s destiny is decided by crucial instantaneousness.
Li: Basically there are several scenes in my mind, like decisive moment. Photography still remains in its interest. For example, one of Henri Bresson’s photos shows that the tassel covered in front of a man’s body. I reckon that there lacks interest in painting but more contents, because of the changing of one’s mood. Although some paintings, in a certain time, I may not want to continue to draw it. I will redo it again after some days. The Stairs and Back Lane have the similar scene, more or less feeling unsafe. Places, such as lanes and stairs etc, resemble fear. As if you can hear the sound while staring it. Stairs are always used as an interlude with sound or emptiness. It doesn’t mean to be dangerous but a mood. It’s easier for us have thought during night time but under the daylight. Night content more so we can make up stories and even our hopes. I am not expecting what the others will comment upon my works. It would be brilliant if someone could sense the fear through it. In fact, it is just a psychological game.
Sun: You applied a two dimensional object to compress the intensely deep contents to a momentary picture. Why do you want to use oil painting as the medium?
Li: Because I studied the oil-painting. When Digital Video was very popular, I tried. But later on, I found that I was not able to handle it very skillfully. Neither I know which one is good nor have the standard judgment. I am fine with photographing because I have enjoyed the works taken by photographers for years. I can’t even work out with acrylic painting. In the end, the oil painting is the most suitable for me to express. It is more like that I love to taste various dishes from different area but only the northeast dishes can satisfy me the most.
Fu: How do you regard those advanced theories, such as the 60’s ideal, the 70’s cruelness and the 80’s cartoon?
Li: There is generality of time. Some people born in 70’s appear a state of mind of 80’s subconsciously. Those 60’s may have an advanced view of life than ever. To divide the age gap on purpose is unnecessary in deed. We can treat it with indifference.
Regarding to the cartoonist, comparing with Japanese, we Chinese do not have the point of view like cartoon does. Chinese all are practical. It is prerequisite to be romantic, so-called realistic romance. I think that it is the national character of Chinese people. To those scenes you think are interesting, you may simplify it by cutting out the superfluous so as to improve the appeal. The Real Life of Mr. V shows that one is lying prone and being lashed, in which expresses a kind of negative and hurting emotion. Now I don’t take harm seriously as long as I grow up. Still, I would feel uncomfortable if someone irritated me much. But it cannot make me as furious as before. In my painting, the two people have the feeling of hostility while chatting ‘you have a guilty conscience’. It is not necessary the hatred, though it will hurt one another in a sense. I intended to give vent to my personal feelings before. Now it is even getting worse as I have to pretend to be calm.
Most of artists generally are idealism. They look worried when they can not express themselves very well in their works. It was the most delighted time before I drew Mr. V. No matter what interrupted I could make it back to the right path.
Sun: What do you think about the artists from northeast china?
Li: I think that people from northeast china are more man-like. It is the way of communication. It can be distinguished precisely while they speaking. As a matter of fact, the artists from northeast are not all easy to live as an artist, because they are from the lower society and not that rich. But they are very much close to ordinary people and being truth to themselves. You definitely can sense what they fond of through their works.
责任编辑：胡适应 |
